You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of this board...
Hello There, Guest!

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
"Backbar Charge"??? questions....plz help !!
#1
Hi..Ok, so this is totally my fault. When I was hired, obviously I was so excited about things...that I wasnt listening properly --so I just found out that I am getting charged for 'backbar'.
I have never encountered this before, and quite honestly--- when Ive heard about it...ppl have mixed emotions about it.
I think its ridiculous. At least my personal situation isnt quite fair in my opinion.

They are charging me ....ok..listen to this.... my boss told me..its 10% of my TOTAL sales per pay period.....then they take 50% of that. So, in reality...its 5% of my total sales.

My most recent paycheck gross is going to be like $1200 before MY commision split....so that means...they are taking $120 /2= $60.
If I have 2 pay periods and am averging that amount per check...thats over $100 month for back bar !! If I have 3....that would be over $150/month.

When I had my own salon after the initial set up costs and everything-- I know that I wasnt spending that much 'each' month for supplies. You know...top coat is $5 and lasts you a couple months...files... acyrlic...etc.
Everything lasts longer for us, than say--- the color for hairstylists. They have bottles, and use pretty much the whole bottle for color services...but my stuff- can be used for weeks without replacing it again.

I dont agree with this at all, and I dont know what to do. I feel as if I am really being taken advantage of as far as an employee. Because...'why' am I even an employee if ideally-- Im paying for my own supplies?
I would rather be independent...pay that much a month for supplies...and get to write everything off. I mean, they get to write it off....??? Right?

I dont want to threaten to quit...but I have a feeling like its not up for negotiation. I feel like if they want 'help'.(you know trying to offset their out of pocket expenses)...with the cost of supplies and want to charge a backbar fee.... charge me like 2% of my sales. Even at 5%....that is ridiculous. Im literally almost paying for the entire backbar supplies.

Any advice or have you ever encountered this? Is this charge amount reasonable?
Just interested in hearing your opinions/experiences....and oh--- I asked most of the stylists there...and with their color avering about $6 PER USE--Per COLOR.....most of them arent getting charged a back bar fee.
That isnt right.

Am I being unreasonable about this?
Thanks guys... appreciate it very much.
" Take time.....to be kind".....
Angel
~Tracy~

Full Time single mom,
Medical Receptionist &
Part Time Nail Artist
Akron, OH
 Reply
#2
I've never had to deal with this situation (backbar) so I can't comment, I'm sure you'll get some good responses though. But the thing that hit me was you are being made to pay this 'fee' and the hairstylists aren't? That is not right. Unless there is more to the story than you're being told...everyone should be treated the same. What exactly are the backbar products you're being charged for, just so I can get an idea? It sounds excessive but like I said I don't know the situation enough to comment.
Laura Merzetti
http://www.scratchmyback.ca
CND Education Ambassador
Toronto, Ontario Canada
 Reply
#3
Every business is set up different. And ultimately it is up to the owner of the business to decide how they want to set it up. Only the owner knows what their overhead is and what they can bear to pay out in commissions, etc. So it is really up to the service provider to determine if they can live with the owner's decisions or not. My business is also set up with commissions and "backbar" fees. It is all spelled out up front and in writing for anyone working for me.

With that said, as a salon owner, I would not charge one provider a backbar fee while not charging others. I CAN understand there being a difference in % between hairstylists, estheticians, massage therapists and nail techs since the cost of products per client/service would vary. But I do not understand charging one and not the other unless it's just made up in the commission % and not broken down. Also, it is less complicated to have ONE % across the board than to have a different fee or % per service.

Bottom line is this....we have the choice of where we would like to work. But when we choose a salon we have to be sure we can live with the owner's decisions on how to operate. Everything is usually negotiable but negotiations should be done prior to hire - during the interview and Q&A times.
Melodie Hand
Clayton/Raleigh, NC
 Reply
#4
anointdhndz :
> Hi..Ok, so this is totally my fault. When I was hired, obviously I was so excited
> about things...that I wasnt listening properly --so I just found out that I
> am getting charged for 'backbar'.
> I have never encountered this before, and quite honestly--- when Ive heard
> about it...ppl have mixed emotions about it.
> I think its ridiculous. At least my personal situation isnt quite fair in
> my opinion.
>
> They are charging me ....ok..listen to this.... my boss told me..its 10% of
> my TOTAL sales per pay period.....then they take 50% of that. So, in reality.
> ..its 5% of my total sales.
>
> My most recent paycheck gross is going to be like $1200 before MY commision
> split....so that means...they are taking $120 /2= $60.
> If I have 2 pay periods and am averging that amount per check...thats over
> $100 month for back bar !! If I have 3....that would be over $150/month.
>
> When I had my own salon after the initial set up costs and everything-- I know
> that I wasnt spending that much 'each' month for supplies. You know...top coat
> is $5 and lasts you a couple months...files... acyrlic...etc.
> Everything lasts longer for us, than say--- the color for hairstylists. They
> have bottles, and use pretty much the whole bottle for color services...but
> my stuff- can be used for weeks without replacing it again.
>
> I dont agree with this at all, and I dont know what to do. I feel as if I am
> really being taken advantage of as far as an employee. Because...'why' am I
> even an employee if ideally-- Im paying for my own supplies?
> I would rather be independent...pay that much a month for supplies...and get
> to write everything off. I mean, they get to write it off....??? Right?
>
> I dont want to threaten to quit...but I have a feeling like its not up for
> negotiation. I feel like if they want 'help'.(you know trying to offset their
> out of pocket expenses)...with the cost of supplies and want to charge a backbar
> fee.... charge me like 2% of my sales. Even at 5%....that is ridiculous. Im
> literally almost paying for the entire backbar supplies.
>
> Any advice or have you ever encountered this? Is this charge amount reasonable?
> Just interested in hearing your opinions/experiences....and oh--- I asked most
> of the stylists there...and with their color avering about $6 PER USE--Per
> COLOR.....most of them arent getting charged a back bar fee.
> That isnt right.
>
> Am I being unreasonable about this?
> Thanks guys... appreciate it very much.

I am in a nails only salon that charges a "backbar" fee on top of what I pay in rent and I buy some of my own supplies, mine is $1.50 no matter what service I do. I understand your outrage, as i am outraged as well, but on the flip side I am making really good money so for now I will stay where i am. Make sure you get a seperate reciept from them for your "backbar charge" so that you have your own write offs.
Cherie
Creative Nail Design Master Nail Tech
Entity Advantage Member #74594
 Reply
#5
Well your math isn't quite right. If you make $1200 in service totals and they take 10% off the top for products then your 50% commission is taken, it should look like this $1200-$120= $1080 - 50% = $540.

But I think you should look at it like this. It averages out to you getting 45% commission. If that were the number they first told you, would you still have taken the job? If the answer is yes, then you just have to let it go. It is very hard to find a salon that is a good match. If everything else is right, then your decision to work at that salon is still a good one.

I do agree with you about having the 10% off the top and then the 50%. Just call it what it is...45% commission, don't nickle and dime me!
Anna Elliott
[email protected]
 Reply
#6
It definitely should be equitable treatment with the others. However, I hold back 7% of my service tickets for supplies and that seems about right. That being said, as a salon owner I wouldn't do a backbar charge with an employee, I would just pay a lower commission so that my costs are all covered.
Candice
Nail Tech/Owner
http://www.PanacheNailStudio.com
 Reply
#7
Yikes! We have "slip charges" and they are 2% across the board, hairstylists, manicurists... Etc... My old boss charged by item and we were really ripped off.. For instance on a full set that back then costs 50.00 my charge was 6 dollars.. Pedicures were 6 dollars and so on... I think 10 percent is high unless they are really building your book! 
Dee
CND Grand Master
 Reply
#8
I'm not sure exactly how this 'backbar' thing works but from what you have described, the first thing I would do is build my case.
What I mean is, do a quick stocktake of what stock is in the backbar, especially your type of stock and then watch it for a month (or more if need be) and do another stock take to see how much of your stock has been used.
Then do the sums and see if that adds up to what your paying.
If it doesn't even come close, then you should speak with the boss and sort it out, if it does come close then you know she is charging you about right.

But I do agree with you, it seems a little excessive and if the hairdressers are not being charged at all then this is wrong but are you sure, maybe they get a different structured wage and it all comes out from there before they even see it and they really don't exactly know that they do indeed pay it.

I can't see a boss being silly enough to charge you but not them, it's not good business practice to make different standards like this with staff, so really do your homework first and then take things from there.

Good luck darl, it must be frustrating for you.
 Reply
#9
I know what it feels like to be the stepped on nail tech. One of my old bosses would discount spa packages and take the whole discount from the nail services. The esthetician and massage therapists got their full %, but us nail techs did not - we absorbed the discount. When I asked my boss why she did it that way she said, "Because it's my business and that is how I did it." Well, how could I argue with that? I just made a mental note never to be so rude and unfair to my employees.

In my experience, #1 on the agenda might need to be "stop all speculations." You are really just killing yourself over them. For all you know, the fee for hair is taken in the form of a different commission structure, and maybe the owner doesn't know the cheapest spots for supplies (heck you can still find me in Sallys sometimes). In any case, it helps not to fill in the blanks with our own information. Just the way I asked my old boss what was going on, you might need to do the same.

Once you let go of the speculations/frustrations (when it comes to my employees I want to think the best of them, and I hope they would do the same for me, and come to me rather than speculate), you can start to think of a solution that is not based on the principle but based on what is practical and beneficial for you. Are you really ok with 45%? Then continue on. If not, you will need to talk to the owner. In my case, it was more practical to stay. I could get over the loss of $, although I felt that I was right in principle.

You can start by telling them you notice that you pay them X amount for backbar, and are interested in lowering product costs for both of you. You can then share some suppliers info along with costs on some of the things you use. If it will save them money, you can try and negotiate a lower amount or banishment all together. If you feel you are being treated unfair (hairstylists pay no fee) you can also bring that up. I know it is an uncomfortable situation, but if you approach it right you will do just fine. I would so appreciate an employee who came to me nicely and talked about her ideas, feelings, and anything else. It doesn't always mean you will get your way, but it will mean I know where you stand, and maybe after talking to me, you will know where I am coming from as well - I am sure your boss will feel the same way, at least a little).

For nail techs, it might just be easier to lower your commission if the owner is going to take a percentage. I do not charge employees, but things get expensive and you have to do what you have to do to survive. My new policy is to build a color fee into the service price for hair: I just inform the hairstylists that the brochure price includes a color fee and that is charged to the client but refunded to me before their commission is figured. The rest of the supplies I pay for out of my %, but color is way too expensive (and hairstylists should not be making a % of my add-on product cost).

Good Luck!
 Reply
#10
Hey all..thanks for the kind and wise words.

I do have a specific question for you Footie..... When I had my business, allthough it was very small...and I shared it with 2 other girls-- but I could write off all of my supplies. I mean everything.

Doesnt the same thing apply to larger businesses? Can they not write off all of the supplies as well?

I have given them many, many ideas...and they do listen to them.I have switched some of the products for more cost effective replacements..and she was very impressed and excited about it.
They are very nice ppl..and yes I started from scratch there in Feb..and have built up quite nicely. But they also got a very experienced, professional nail tech who didnt need training...etc.. in me. They havnt had a full time NT there in about 2 years or so...and I guess the girl before me never did as well either.
So, yes... and he told me that because they had to invest a certain amount of $$ for me in the beginning..that is the reason. But I got them really good deals, and it was only about $400 start up. Now, they are buying alot more shellac because of me...but I shouldnt be penalized for that.

I feel if I am an employee...I shouldnt have to pay for my supplies...because then I would be independant. You know?

Oh well..im gonna talk to him on thursday..so we will see.
Im not jumpin the gun either..Im just going to try to reason with him and get the complete low down. I know that I would not be comfortable paying that my entire career there, and probably would look elsewhere for work in the future if he isnt willing to negotiate. The more money I make..the more they will take, and I just dont think its fair.

thanks everyone for your input. Just wanted to see what you all thought and experienced before...Smile
" Take time.....to be kind".....
Angel
~Tracy~

Full Time single mom,
Medical Receptionist &
Part Time Nail Artist
Akron, OH
 Reply
#11
If they are writing off supplies and charging you at the same time that might be illegal. I guess it depends on how they do their paperwork. Maybe they write it off then claim what they charge you as income. I don't know... It's best not to speculate. Or are you suggesting they just take a write off instead of charging you? Charging you they actually come out on top, instead of writing you off. A write off is not taken off your taxes, it is taken out of your taxable income. So if you pay 30% in taxes, then they only save 30 cents on the dollar, opposed to the 100% they save when they are charging you. Kinda crappy that they come out a little ahead by putting you a little behind, huh? I'm sorry about that. I really think for nail techs and massage therapists owners might do well to figure a flat percentage, considering product cost, instead of charging for backbar. Just my opinion.

Hair is a little different though given that the product cost is too high and would make hair services unaffordable if prices were inflated with an additional 2x product cost (given that the owner gives the stylist a % on the product cost). I have had this happen at my shop. The stylist was charging an extra $40 for color for some people, even more for others. Of course, $20 of that was my product, but in order for me to get that off of 50%, she had to charge $40 for product. It was total insanity and the colorist was going greedy crazy charging people for "product" since she got a split. People were walking out very mad after getting a $145 bill for what should have been an $85 service. I now know to put color cost in my brochure prices (which I refund to myself) and any additional color is charged at replacement cost (which is refunded to me to replace the color, and not split).

Of course... nails is TOTALLY different from this, so I am sorry you are having to deal with backbar issues.
 Reply
#12
45% is a very low commission unless your working in a super high end salon thats charging way over the top for nails. If you are working 80 hours a paycheck, you're not even making $7 an hour going off your $1200 estimate. Even if you're just working 40 hours over 2 weeks, your not even making $14 an hour! I'd never be able to come close to living off that. Did you make sure she is paying your taxes, might want to make sure you don't end up with that bill too.

There are a lot of good reasons to work for yourself. If you have a book that isn't close to being full, being in a busy salon is good to build. Did she make you sign a non compete so you can't go off on your own eventually too?
Jessica Hoel
Nail Professional
Akzentz Distributor & Educator
http://www.luvnailz.com
 Reply
#13
I have worked in a few salons before going off to teach nails and then becoming my own boss. I have never had a fee for product working on commission. After all they are supposed to provide the supplies, while you provide the tools. So I don't know why that's not already figured into your commission pay. I agree with Footie about maybe there is some waste going on and looking into cost reduction together could reduce or eliminate that extra charge.
You did say you were hired under this rule but didn't hear them. Which is something you might talk about, but it might not go far.
Also and this is a big big also. Anything you pay for is a tax deduction for YOU and not the salon. SO you do need a receipt saying how much your paying out for product and then write that off as an work expense that is not reimbursed by your employer. If you do your own taxes on turbo tax or other its right there after you enter your W2 lines.
They don't get to claim the cost if your paying for it.
Great employees are hard to come by anymore, and great bosses too. So when you find each other talk out the issues. The grass is not always greener.
 Reply
#14
Hmm that is really some good advice. I will make sure I get my facts straight tomorrow and let them know Ive researched the subject and I can write off any/all charges they are taking from me.

I will feel him out to see how he responds to that.

And Jess- NO-- I didnt sign any non-compete form. I wouldnt have done that.
And, Im not putting in 40 hours a week...only about 30. I am just doing wed-saturday. I mean, its a nice salon...but its no high end spa. Our prices are kinda on the higher end for the area......
Ex: Fills are $28 Full sets- $45 Shellac mani is $31-35..pedi's are $41...so you can see what I mean.

Well, Im just gonna play it by ear, and see how it goes. But I gotta stand up for myself. Ive let way too many ppl walk all over me in the past..and Im not going to do it anymore. I can pretty much work anywhere. I dont want to leave there...but I guess I have to be prepared to put my money where my mouth is...so to speak.
It will all work out..it always does. I will let you guys know how it turns out tomrow after I get home..thanks again ladies...its much appreciated !!!
SmileSmile
" Take time.....to be kind".....
Angel
~Tracy~

Full Time single mom,
Medical Receptionist &
Part Time Nail Artist
Akron, OH
 Reply
#15
Good luck (hugs to you)

Look forward to hearing what pans out.
 Reply
#16
Sounds kinda like how my salon runs but well, not so shady. My manager makes everyone pay a lab fee, which is the cost of the investment of the product, divided by the number of services that come from the product. Commission is split after lab fees are deducted. For larger ticket items, like buying into a gel polish system, the lab fees are higher until that item is paid off but my highest lab fee comes to about $8 tops per service.

My commission is a little high, but I need training and my salon provides education reimbursement, ongoing training and many other perks and if I have a need for supplies or tools, I've never been denied.

Perhaps, if you can break down the cost in a way that make since for both you and your salon owner, the will be a lil more willing to see things your way and adjust your fees accordingly. Backbar/labfees are a year end write off so I hope it works out for you.
 Reply

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread
Author
  /  
Last Post
Replies: 5
Views: 4,166
04-22-2012, 12:33 PM
Last PostTashawna
Replies: 12
Views: 9,783
01-31-2012, 10:56 PM
Last Postharmonysky
Replies: 8
Views: 11,705
10-21-2011, 02:31 PM
Last Postsillysoup
Replies: 5
Views: 4,879
10-17-2011, 10:50 PM
Last Postnailcreations
Replies: 6
Views: 3,913
10-15-2011, 12:23 AM
Last Post: Guest

 
Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)