You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of this board...
Hello There, Guest!

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
$20 shellac continued
#1
Donna, I couldn't agree with you more.

>Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:06 am

Quote:I look at it like this, I can do the whole process in about 15 minutes, that's more than a $1 a minute which is considered great pay in this biz. It's the ONLY thing I can do at a $1 a minute right now, so if all I did was sog mani's every 15-20 minutes at $20 a pop, then I'm doing great! There's nothing wrong with making a huge profit but when you need to be competitive, (within reason), then you need to do it. I'm charging $3 over what the Asian salon is charging but I don't have the luxury of being able to take walk-ins so I've got to counter that with giving something they can't, conversation and a dedicated appointment time. My clientel comes to me for exactly that reason is pays more for it.

As for adding the mani cost, when you think about it, to prep their nails, you're already doing the mani, the only thing missing is lotion application. So adding the cost of a mani on top of the cost of Shellac is a bit much, imo, but if you can get 'em to pay it, go for it! Here, for the 'mani' with Shellac, they add $5 more......so you're looking at $23.
_________________
Donna Schur, L.N.T.

At my old salon, a Shellac manicure is $40 for a service time that can last between 45 to 60 minutes. This includes all the extras. I got bored with spending so much time with all that other stuff, when I knew I could do the service in less than 30 minutes.

If your clients enjoy all the pampering, by all means continue doing what you are doing.

Now that I have switched to using LED polishes and a LED lamp, my service is much faster. I dropped the service price by $10 and eliminated all the extras. I can do one clients in 30 minutes at $30. Fill the hour slot with two SOGP services I have now made $60 for that hour.

The nail shop I'm moving to does this and there are b u s y. I'm meeting the needs of the client who wants to get in and out of the nail salon quickly, but want a great cs experience too.

Doing this service without the add ons --> scrub, lotion, long massage, can improve your timing and allow you to see more clients.

This is just another way to look at a $20 SOGP service.

Enhance
 Reply
#2
Mine is a $10 flat add on. I do not charge for removal. If they just want sogp, with no manicure ( prep only ) its $20. It takes just under 30 min. I cannot charge $30 for a no manicure sogp, I personally think that's too high. My co workers get a full sogp for that same $20 with me.
I have yet to work on a client that has opted out of the manicure part. The detailed cuticle work, the nails shaped and evened out and the oil and hydration massage, so I have always been paid $30 - $35 for my sogp service. Takes me 40 min. Removal and all. They do not get a discount for having soaked them off already. I prefer they let me do it so I can see the nail, and some of them are too rough, but they do not get a reward if its done haha.
 Reply
#3
I do a $27 service- prep, sog, cuticle oil, and lotion to the elbow- no massage. Works wonders.
Always be kind....you get farther.
 Reply
#4
Tn Nail Lady :
> I do a $27 service- prep, sog, cuticle oil, and lotion to the elbow- no massage.
> Works wonders.



hi ladies, what is LED Polish and how does it work???
 Reply
#5
LED polish is the new gel polishes that are all the rage now. Some are formulated to be able to cure under an LED lamp or you can cure them under a reg. 9 watt tunnel lamp.
 Reply
#6
Actually for most of the gels like Gelish, shellac, etc a 36 watt lamp is recommended.
 Reply
#7
Quote:Gelishly :
> Actually for most of the gels like Gelish, shellac, etc a 36 watt lamp is recommended.
>
Gelish is LED and UV cured. Shellac is UV only. Both need a 36 watt unit but it's not 36 watts really. It's 9. 4 nine watt bulbs still only put out 9 watts and not 36 as a combined watt.
 Reply
#8
I still don't understand how some techs are able to do a gel polish (LED/UV/SOG etc can do this so quickly. With UV/SOGP or regular gels we're talking at least 15-16 min of cure time alone. I don't see how one can properly get the nails prepped and even slapping the gel on that it could be done in 30min; 45 min maybe yes.

Perhaps those zinging away with an efile but those using hand file only can I hear from you specifically?

Thank you.
Anna
 Reply
#9
Nail Raising :
> I still don't understand how some techs are able to do a gel polish (LED/UV/SOG
> etc can do this so quickly. With UV/SOGP or regular gels we're talking at least
> 15-16 min of cure time alone. I don't see how one can properly get the nails
> prepped and even slapping the gel on that it could be done in 30min; 45 min
> maybe yes.
>
> Perhaps those zinging away with an efile but those using hand file only can
> I hear from you specifically?
>
> Thank you.

It takes me about 20 minutes to do a shellac service if my client has already removed the product, and probably 5-10 minutes on top of that if I remove it with acetone, i do not use efiles on gel polish and only a handfile if it's one of those NSS jobs that won't come off without it. Of course, that time doesn't include nail art, but most of my clients just want a solid color or french. For me at least, prep doesn't take more than a few minutes, but maybe that's just my clients? I think all of them have low maintenance nails (you know...none of them grow crazy amounts of pterygium, no hangnails...etc).
It does take a bit longer if I'm using a SOGP that comes in a pot, because most of the base coats take longer to cure than the shellac base does.
I guess 30 minutes doesn't seem like a ridiculous amount of time to me, but it probably depends on the brand and the color.
 Reply
#10
Quote:sobeit :
>
Quote:Gelishly :
>> Actually for most of the gels like Gelish, shellac, etc a 36 watt lamp is recommended.
>>
> Gelish is LED and UV cured. Shellac is UV only. Both need a 36 watt unit but
> it's not 36 watts really. It's 9. 4 nine watt bulbs still only put out 9 watts
> and not 36 as a combined watt.
Sobeit, I don't believe this is accurate. Perhaps someone can correct me, but it is my understanding that wattage is not a measure of output, but a measure of power usage. Thus, four 9 watt bulbs really do use 36 watts, and the output of four 9 watt bulbs is four times what one puts out. But all 9 watt bulbs are not created equal, some have a higher output than others. Despite that, wattage is the only practical measurement for these bulbs and is what is generally used. Then there's the design of the light, which can maximize or minimize the effectiveness of the bulbs.

Is Doug Schoon in the house?! Smile
 Reply
#11
Nail Raising :
I don't see how one can properly get the nails
> prepped and even slapping the gel on that it could be done in 30min; 45 min
> maybe yes.
>
> Perhaps those zinging away with an efile but those using hand file only can
> I hear from you specifically?
>
> Thank you.

Well, I have to say, using LED definitely helps speed up the process. I book 30 min for a new set of Gelish and 45 for removal and re-application. not sure what an efile has to do with it?

Nail Raising :
> I still don't understand how some techs are able to do a gel polish (LED/UV/SOG
> etc can do this so quickly. With UV/SOGP or regular gels we're talking at least
> 15-16 min of cure time

I'd say if you're going to stick to UV lights , you definitely need to use two.
 Reply
#12
I will do some searching for the info, but no, a 9 watt bulb set in 4 different places does not make a 36 watt deal. It's still 9 watts. No matter how many bulbs there are. If you had a lamp with 5 four watt bulbs in it, its only covering more of the hand. It wouldn't be a 20 watt.
 Reply
#13
sobeit :
Quote:> I will do some searching for the info, but no, a 9 watt bulb set in 4 different
> places does not make a 36 watt deal. It's still 9 watts. No matter how many
> bulbs there are. If you had a lamp with 5 four watt bulbs in it, its only covering
> more of the hand. It wouldn't be a 20 watt.

But that's where I think you're wrong. You're measuring input (watts) not output, and more bulbs always means more input.

The question you're responding to is does four nine watt bulbs provide more output (curing power) than one 9 watt - and I think the answer is yes.
 Reply
#14
I wasn't responding to a question about UV bulbs but trying to clariify that one, Gelish is dual cure capable and two, shellac is not and that it's not really a 36 watt lamp. Here is an explaination I found online. And what I mean is what I said, 4 nine watt bulbs are still 9 watts, not a combined 36. It's more coverage of 9 watts per so much space in the unit. It's still 9 watts.
Quote: OK, this discussion is definitely going to have so much more information than you ever needed, or wanted to know about UV lamps, bulbs, and gels, LOL. But, that isn't such a bad thing, is it?
Anyway...When referring to the wattage of a particular UV lamp, its important to know that the combined wattage of the individual bulbs does is not what the wattage of the lamp is. Does that make sense? Let me try this. Most UV lamps take 9 watt bulbs. There are a few - very few, that take a 6 watt UV bulb. The number of bulbs in a particular UV lamp varies from a single bulb, to four, and even five bulbs with four being the most common. Lets assume that a lamp has four (9) watt bulbs in it. That lamp is still a 9 watt lamp. It is not a 36 watt lamp as so very many people incorrectly assume it to be. The only thing different is the lamps UV light output per square inch. Obviously, four bulbs are going to give off more of an intense light than a single bulb. It get a bit more complicated actually. You see, the size of the UV lamp (in square inches when the interior is measured) plays a large role in the amount of UV light emmited and put to use. A large lamp with four bulbs has a larger interior area. There are lamps out there which are much smaller inside than most others and these will generally give a higher light output to square inch ratio. For example, the CND Brisa lamp is very small in terms of size. One hand fits just fine, but there is very little extra room to it. This lamp has three (9) watt UV bulbs. If you were to see the actual numbers which show the light intensity of the various lamps, you would se that even with three bulbl, the Brisa lamp emits more UV light than almost all other lamps that use four bulbs. Thus, the Brisa lamp will provide for a full cure for just about any UV gel on the market with a two minute curing time. BTW, two minutes is pretty much the standard length of time to cure almost any UV gel on the matket, with a few exceptions.
Another important consideration is the manufacturer of the bulb itself. The best UV bulbs are made by Sylvania, and Philips - and one other brand that I cannot recall at the moment. These bulbs are expensive in comparison to all the other bulbs which are available. Many UV bulbs are generic bulbs imported from China and other countries, and are rather inferior in terms of quality. They are a fraction of the cost of the high quality bulbs I mentioned, but they aren't very effective, they burn out quickly, and they don't always fully cure the UV gels. One thing...When I say they 'burn out,' I mean the UV light emitted is not anywhere near as strong as it was when the bulb was new. Any UV bulb - when it is brand new will emit the most UV light of its useful life. Each time you use the lamp, the bulb loses some of its UV intensity. Don't be fooled by the fact that 'light' is still visible. That tells nothing. The thing is, UV light is not visible to the naked eye. Only the other unusable, non-UV light that is emmited is visible. So, a bulb may still be working, so to speak, but the UV light that is emmited from the bulb could very well be depleted, and therefore 'burned out.' Are you with me on this? OK, cool!!!
The lesson to be learned from the above is that not all UV bulbs are vreated equally. For consistently good results, always buy the best bulbs on the market. Cheap bulbs are really nothing but a waste of money.
 Reply
#15
sobeit :
> I wasn't responding to a question about UV bulbs but trying to clariify that
> one, Gelish is dual cure capable and two, shellac is not and that it's not
> really a 36 watt lamp. Here is an explaination I found online. And what I mean
> is what I said, 4 nine watt bulbs are still 9 watts, not a combined 36. It's
> more coverage of 9 watts per so much space in the unit. It's still 9 watts.
>
>
Quote: OK, this discussion is definitely going to have so much more information
> than you ever needed, or wanted to know about UV lamps, bulbs, and gels, LOL.
> But, that isn't such a bad thing, is it?
> Anyway...When referring to the wattage of a particular UV lamp, its important
> to know that the combined wattage of the individual bulbs does is not what
> the wattage of the lamp is. Does that make sense? Let me try this. Most UV
> lamps take 9 watt bulbs. There are a few - very few, that take a 6 watt UV
> bulb. The number of bulbs in a particular UV lamp varies from a single bulb,
> to four, and even five bulbs with four being the most common. Lets assume
> that a lamp has four (9) watt bulbs in it. That lamp is still a 9 watt lamp.
> It is not a 36 watt lamp as so very many people incorrectly assume it to be.
> The only thing different is the lamps UV light output per square inch. Obviously,
> four bulbs are going to give off more of an intense light than a single bulb.
> It get a bit more complicated actually. You see, the size of the UV lamp (in
> square inches when the interior is measured) plays a large role in the amount
> of UV light emmited and put to use. A large lamp with four bulbs has a larger
> interior area. There are lamps out there which are much smaller inside than
> most others and these will generally give a higher light output to square inch
> ratio. For example, the CND Brisa lamp is very small in terms of size. One
> hand fits just fine, but there is very little extra room to it. This lamp has
> three (9) watt UV bulbs. If you were to see the actual numbers which show the
> light intensity of the various lamps, you would se that even with three bulbl,
> the Brisa lamp emits more UV light than almost all other lamps that use four
> bulbs. Thus, the Brisa lamp will provide for a full cure for just about any
> UV gel on the market with a two minute curing time. BTW, two minutes is pretty
> much the standard length of time to cure almost any UV gel on the matket, with
> a few exceptions.
> Another important consideration is the manufacturer of the bulb itself. The
> best UV bulbs are made by Sylvania, and Philips - and one other brand that
> I cannot recall at the moment. These bulbs are expensive in comparison to all
> the other bulbs which are available. Many UV bulbs are generic bulbs imported
> from China and other countries, and are rather inferior in terms of quality.
> They are a fraction of the cost of the high quality bulbs I mentioned, but
> they aren't very effective, they burn out quickly, and they don't always fully
> cure the UV gels. One thing...When I say they 'burn out,' I mean the UV light
> emitted is not anywhere near as strong as it was when the bulb was new. Any
> UV bulb - when it is brand new will emit the most UV light of its useful life.
> Each time you use the lamp, the bulb loses some of its UV intensity. Don't
> be fooled by the fact that 'light' is still visible. That tells nothing. The
> thing is, UV light is not visible to the naked eye. Only the other unusable,
> non-UV light that is emmited is visible. So, a bulb may still be working,
> so to speak, but the UV light that is emmited from the bulb could very well
> be depleted, and therefore 'burned out.' Are you with me on this? OK, cool!!!
> The lesson to be learned from the above is that not all UV bulbs are vreated
> equally. For consistently good results, always buy the best bulbs on the market.
> Cheap bulbs are really nothing but a waste of money.

When I said you were responding to a question, I meant a hypothetical/philosophical one, not a specific one asked in the forum.

Where is this quote from? I do not believe the first part is accurate, although I think the latter part makes exactly my point which was that output varies greatly even among bulbs of the same wattage (again because that is a measure of input not output) and that placement and design make a big difference in curing. But that gets us back to the controversial light debate! :roll:
 Reply
#16
I'm not trying to debate. I'm just trying to tell what I have been told, taught and read for the last 18 years. I can agree with the eye roll though.
 Reply
#17
Im jumping in kinda late but i charge only $20 for gelish and Im phasing out the old axxium products. The prep is not so much that i cant do a set in 30. However i rarely have clients coming in with jacked up nails. If there is anything stuck to the nail plate i just use the nailfile and buff it away. I run a softened file around the cuticle and sidewalls then over the top with a buffer and my prep is done. No over filing or hard work involved. When they come back for a new sog or a fill i just buff the new growth the same way. Enough to remove the shine and smooth any debris from the nail. 7 mins of cure time on each hand and bam they are out the door in 20-30 depending on art or complications. I Dont charge for removal but it usually only takes 5-10 mins so i use that time to offer drinks and rebook the client so i Dont waste time. No complaints yet. Maybe you can improve your polishing speed to shave time? In the two mins while hand one is curing you should be able to apply and be ready to cure the layer on hand two. Or like the other girls said, invest in led. You cure in 30 seconds so you have a about 2 min s cure time per hand. I work just fine with uv because it gives me time to apply new layers while the other hand is curing.
CND trained since '02
Lumos & Famous Names- Famous Partner~ want Lumos? Email me!
Www://facebook.com/cloudnineathens
Lumos! Dadi' Oil! Vamoos!
 Reply
#18
jb100680 :
> Nail Raising :
> I don't see how one can properly get the nails
>> prepped and even slapping the gel on that it could be done in 30min; 45 min
>> maybe yes.
>>
>> Perhaps those zinging away with an efile but those using hand file only can
>> I hear from you specifically?
>>
>> Thank you.
>
> Well, I have to say, using LED definitely helps speed up the process. I book
> 30 min for a new set of Gelish and 45 for removal and re-application. not
> sure what an efile has to do with it?
>
> Nail Raising :
>> I still don't understand how some techs are able to do a gel polish (LED/UV/SOG
>> etc can do this so quickly. With UV/SOGP or regular gels we're talking at least
>> 15-16 min of cure time
>
> I'd say if you're going to stick to UV lights , you definitely need to use
> two.



Efile? Some have stated they use an efile to remove SOGP instead of soaking off.

I do have/use two UV lights.
My extra time is due to the application as I am much slower trying to apply thin enough and so on. That will improve for certain but doubt i will cut it back 30 min service.
Anna
 Reply
#19
CloudNineNails :
> Im jumping in kinda late but i charge only $20 for gelish and Im phasing out
> the old axxium products. The prep is not so much that i cant do a set in 30.
> However i rarely have clients coming in with jacked up nails. If there is
> anything stuck to the nail plate i just use the nailfile and buff it away.
> I run a softened file around the cuticle and sidewalls then over the top with
> a buffer and my prep is done. No over filing or hard work involved. When they
> come back for a new sog or a fill i just buff the new growth the same way.
> Enough to remove the shine and smooth any debris from the nail. 7 mins of
> cure time on each hand and bam they are out the door in 20-30 depending on
> art or complications. I Dont charge for removal but it usually only takes 5-
> 10 mins so i use that time to offer drinks and rebook the client so i Dont
> waste time. No complaints yet. Maybe you can improve your polishing speed to
> shave time? In the two mins while hand one is curing you should be able to
> apply and be ready to cure the layer on hand two. Or like the other girls said,
> invest in led. You cure in 30 seconds so you have a about 2 min s cure time
> per hand. I work just fine with uv because it gives me time to apply new layers
> while the other hand is curing.

I see, but with Shellac there is no need to remove shine but do need to do cuticle work.

You all must have clients walking in knowing what color they want from the get go. Mine change color each time and so here go w/ removal then teetering back and forth on which color 'should I use today?'

Bam! 10-15 min right there!
Anna
 Reply
#20
Quote:I still don't understand how some techs are able to do a gel polish (LED/UV/SOG etc can do this so quickly. With UV/SOGP or regular gels we're talking at least 15-16 min of cure time alone. I don't see how one can properly get the nails prepped and even slapping the gel on that it could be done in 30min; 45 min maybe yes.

Perhaps those zinging away with an efile but those using hand file only can I hear from you specifically?

Hi Nail Raising,

I don't use an efile for my sogp service.

My timing has a lot to do with being organized. On my table sits a colorpop display of 56 pops I've painted with my collection of LED sogp. The pops are labled with the names of the gp. The LED gp is stored on the individual box it came in because it has the color and name on the top of the box. They are all organized according to color. The cleaner, ph bond, base and top are all in a row as to how I use them. My nail wipes are there too along wtih a dry wipe brush and my french brush.

All sogp are stored in large craft case behind me.

LED lamp that sit directly on my table. I set my lamp up every morning whether I'm doing sogp or not so that I am always ready for the service.

Steps: sani hands

1) remove any polish
2) brief consult and check out fingers to see what I need to do with cuticles. I ask client to decide on a color - all the while I'm "talking to the hand".

With some clients I can use a curette and push back ptygium (sp.?) dry. I nip any (dead) dry white waving skin off and shape the nails.

With the client who has thicker ptyger., I apply CND cuticle remover, let is sit while I shape the nails. When it's soft, push back and clip any (dead) skin.

3) cleanse nails

4) apply ph to fe

5) base, cure (10 sec. )
6) thin coat color, cure - 2nd thin coat color, cure (30 sec. each coat)
7) top, cure (10 sec.)

8) clean off tacky layer with alcohol
9) oil, lotion

Enhance
 Reply
#21
No efile here. Course i Dont use shellac either and i hear that its thicker so maybe that is what is holding you up? Dont feel bad tho. My trainee takes 45-60 min to do gel.
CND trained since '02
Lumos & Famous Names- Famous Partner~ want Lumos? Email me!
Www://facebook.com/cloudnineathens
Lumos! Dadi' Oil! Vamoos!
 Reply
#22
Nail Raising, granted it may take 16-17 min. to cure the nails but you're working on the other hand while one is curing. Honestly, imo, it shouldn't take more than 30 min. to remove and repaint with g.p., and that's NOT using an e-file. I can see where it would take longer to do it if you're using cuticle remover and doing a mani before application of the g.p., but the only time I'm using cuticle remover is the very first time they come in. Even then, since I'm not removing anything but cuticle, it's still only going to take 30 min. tops.
 Reply
#23
Quote:but it is my understanding that wattage is not a measure of output, but a measure of power usage. Thus, four 9 watt bulbs really do use 36 watts, and the output of four 9 watt bulbs is four times what one puts out. But all 9 watt bulbs are not created equal, some have a higher output than others. Despite that, wattage is the only practical measurement for these bulbs and is what is generally used. Then there's the design of the light, which can maximize or minimize the effectiveness of the bulbs.

This is spot on, Nancy. It's what we were taught at college and what a reputable manufacturer or any electrician worth his/her salt will tell you too.
 Reply
#24
Quote:Toothypegs, Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject: (No subject)
Just like you don't have 36 watts just because you have four 9 watt bulbs in your lamp http://www.beautytech.com/forums/viewtop...ht=#321737
 Reply
#25
(01-12-2012, 08:19 AM)Toothypegs Wrote:
Quote:but it is my understanding that wattage is not a measure of output, but a measure of power usage. Thus, four 9 watt bulbs really do use 36 watts, and the output of four 9 watt bulbs is four times what one puts out. But all 9 watt bulbs are not created equal, some have a higher output than others. Despite that, wattage is the only practical measurement for these bulbs and is what is generally used. Then there's the design of the light, which can maximize or minimize the effectiveness of the bulbs.

This is spot on, Nancy. It's what we were taught at college and what a reputable manufacturer or any electrician worth his/her salt will tell you too.


I understand input wattage and output wattage are different, and it seems this whole lamp discussion started because of my comment on needing a 36 watt lamp.

When a lamp is sold as 9 watts, 36 watts or even 45 watts, that's speaking of INPUT wattage. But what is sold as a 36 watt lamp is what the SOGP manufacturers recommend. And honestly I think the whole debate on figuring out what the output wattage of the lamp is is really too complicated for most people. It's much easier to go by input wattage than to try to get everyone to understand that it's not the same as output wattage. We went to school to be nail techs, not electricians.

To me, when you say you need a 9 watt lamp, that would be what is sold as a 9-watt lamp. I think it just makes it confusing. A small lamp with a single, 9-watt bulb in it. And that's not what the manufacturers are saying is needed to cure their gels. Would you buy what is sold as a 9-watt lamp, with a single 9-watt bulb, and trust that it would cure your SOGP correctly?
 Reply

 
Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)